I have no patience with those who resort to violent protest, or worse, deliberately go to protests to provoke police and engage in violent acts against the police. Equally, I have no patience with Police when they exceed their powers and use violence.
I watched this film with mounting anger and a sense of shame that Police in our country could use riot shields and batons, capable of inflicting severe pain and injury, on a group of demonstrators who held their hands up and shouted “This is not a riot”.
I quote from one of the commenters on the Indymedia London page – Carbondave and leave you to make your own minds up. I know what I think of this behaviour by the Police.
“I wonder if they are trained in using the ‘riot’ ‘shield’ as an offensive weapon – if so this footage would make a good training video – except what they are doing is of course not only immoral, disgraceful, shameful and sickening, it also happens to be illegal.
Which Police Dept, or Police Complaints Dept, Ombudsman or other upholder of Justice in our country, will be chosen to study this footage and decide how many police to arrest and press charges against. Looks like hudreds to me.
200 Police arrested for criminal behavour at Climate Camp. Now that would be a headline. Wonder if they ask themselves, when they go home, exactly when it was that they realised they were no longer public servants.”
UPDATE : The Magistrate’s Blog picked up this post – Do have a look at the comments on The Magistrates blog post. They are interesting and giove a reasoned and balanced view of police riot control techniques generally, with some very useful observations from people who were actually at the protest.
UPDATE: Sunday 5th April 2009: From The Observer
Police ‘assaulted’ bystander who died during G20 protests
UPDATE Tuesday 7th April 2009
The Guardian has a particlarly disturbing film of Ian Tomlinson being pushed over by a police officer. Tomlinson had his hands in his pockets, with his back to police and was walking away from them. He was pushed by an officer, and fell over with his hands still in his pockets. Ian Tomlinson died later.
There were no edits in this film as far as I could see, no immediate threat to Police from Tomlinson – yet he was pushed from behind by a policeman in riot gear. Is this policing we should accept? Is this an example of Police showing restraint, good discipline and bravery? What excuse can the police come up with to excuse this excessive use of force? A man died soon after this action. There is a possible causal link – such is not beyond the bounds of possibility and may yet be confirmed by experts.
Make you own mind up when you see the film footage.
See also: Is this the type of Policing we want in our country and the comments.
Charon, surely you know better than to encourage terrorism (by which I mean filming of the police) ?
While I guess it is understandable that the Police would prepare for the worst in the face of multiple protests and marches in our fair capital, this behaviour is worse than despicable, it is downright scary. Penning in protestors, stopping people leaving if they wanted to, providing barely any medical aid or even water to those they contained, treating anyone involved as a criminal and finally this. At the most peaceful and correctly organised part of the protest (how much clearer could they have made it that they weren’t rioting?) we have police, first deployed with extreme deffensive aparell and second, using it offensively. I can only hope that every single one of these officers is identified and not only fired, but publicly disgraced.
While these protests were almost tame in the face of past events on the same streets, there is no doubt that these are a precursor to more. If this is how the police mean to continue in their handling of such situations there will be blood on the streets this summer, and by the gallon. I implore anyone who is in the position, or who has the ear of someone in a position to discourage or stop this sort of conduct by our so called protectors; Please use it. We cannot, CANNOT live in a country where we fear our police due to the abuse of their power. It is as simple as that.
James
I’ve been brushing up on s76 of the Counter terrorism Act 2009 and so has Matt Wardman
http://www.mattwardman.com/blog/2009/04/02/photographs-of-policemen-section-76-and-the-g20-demos-ministers-have-their-heads-in-the-clouds/
Mike Guina
I have sympathy for Police who have a job to do – but, surely, Riot Police in this situation, behaving as revealed on the film, is not the way to do it.
Wait, neotiate… most protesters, I suspect have homes to go to and would have been happy to go when the protest was over.
I wasn’t there – but I did not like what I saw on the film.
Surely there is a better way?
There is, without a doubt, a better way. Not that I am trying to say I know what it is. The sympathy for the Police is well placed, they have one of the most difficult and under-appreciated jobs there is, more so in these troubled times. Nonetheless this sort of conduct is hardly going to help their already tarnished image. Surely it is plain to see that if the wardens use force first then there will be a forceful reaction. I unfortunately can only blame the escalation of wednesdays antics on the heavy handed treatment by the Police, people treated like animals will act like them. It is a disconcerting fact of modern policing that the assumption is that people will behave badly and therefore treating everyone as a criminal is justified. The label “terrorist” is ambiguous in the extreme and as the article you linked, as well as common sense notes, making laws which can potentially label anyone as a terrorist for the slightest of infractions is dangerous.
I am currently studying law, and learning about it and watching its enactment on the “streets” makes me want to have less and less to do with this beleaguered country every day.
Slightly tangential, but the RSA has a superb podcast of a 25 year retrospective on the miners’ strike. Orgreave, at which the author, then a snot nosed, stroppy undergrad and fully paid up southern sissy, got taught a lesson he will never forget. The lesson being that attacking a police horse with one’s head is not a good idea.
http://www.thersa.org/__data/assets/file/0004/168493/rsathursday120309.mp3
It looks to me as if the police involved weren’t properly trained for the situation. The crowd was very edgy at the beginning so they pushed there way in, but the didn’t stop when the crowd obviously weren’t going to do anything.
I have had reports from my friends who took part in a peaceful demo in London on Saturday where some potential trouble makers turned up. The Police there handled the situation completely differently, probably because it is something they have to deal with regularly so they have more experience in these situations.
Charon,
Would this law make a good subject for a podcast? It is beyond parody.
I wonder if the protesters could have a claim in tort for battery against the police?
It reminded me of the film version of Ghandi, when they laid down to stop the horses trampling on them, except in the present case we have people with their hands in the air, being pushed back with riot shields and in some cases being battered by batons.
Was there any need for it? I think the Police have stumbled into a very grey area here, these people were obviously peaceful, any retaliation such as trying to keep the police away from them is quite understandable.
I wonder if the police would like it if they were trying to be rounded up and contained, being pushed back whilst their hands were in the air
Pricks
My worry is that we as citizens remain unable to hold the police to account for such actions. This site will be read by those educated and capable with the legal system. Even for people such as yourselves organizing to bring the police in this video would be a tough job. I hold out little hope that these protestors will see justice done.
Still hopefully by more people viewing this video awarness will be raised as to the state of democracy in modern britian.
Moon23
Thanks for tipping me off to this vid. Be in touch through Twitter et al… no doubt.
[...] Spar a “fascist” because he won’t give them a discount on lager. But he’s appalled by what he saw at the G20 summit protests, and produced some rather remarkable citizen Twitter journalism on it. I’ll give you the [...]
The way things currently stand, asking a policeman to do a stop and search of the village octogenarian could end in police brutality, so what to do?
Our government has lost pride in what it does; perhaps Obama’s *energy* might rub off on Gordon and by some magical power of osmosis, imbue him (and the police) with a sense of propriety.
(Yes, I realise Obama may one day be brought up on federal charges of some kind or worse, actually be like every other politician but in the mean time, I feel I can get away with said Stateside Righteousness)…..
As someone who sees no virtue in protest (violent or otherwise) all I might add is that protest, like violence, solves nothing, either side of the equation. If you’ve got a problem with something, tackle it cerebrally, no?
You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.
Where were you with your views about police brutality when the pro fox hunting protesters were being illegally battered by the Met ?
If it was OK for them, then I really cannot see what you have to complain about now, you get the system you support.
Its edited quite nicely, missing out chunks that could clearly be important.
I’d suggest it could have been edited in the protesters favour, judging by the name of the video being “Film Of Police Attack On G20 Climate Camp”
Notice how the police line up, and protester begin to surge towards the line? Strange that.
I think to call the police involved here “pricks”, like “lost” has, is fairly childish.
Maybe the “climate camp” could have been set up somewhere other than a road in the middle of central london. A small field perhaps?
Re: Dan
I didn’t see any footage of police brutality towards pro fox hunting groups, perhaps you could provide me with some?
Funnily enough I posted the above video on a networking site and suitably fell into disagreement with two people I know, one who used to work for the MET and another who is a volunteer for the MET.
One fragrantly told me to “mind my own business”..
The second said “it wasnt that bad”.
Now firstly why is it not my business? Yes I wasn’t at the protest however as a member of the public and as a citizen of the United Kingdom why is it not my business to raise such an issue, and secondly “it wasnt that bad” yes it could have been worse, however why should that mitigate the police’s heavy handedness?
There is a clear scene in that video of police bludgeoning their way through where people who are not protesting are caught up and being hit.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3017/police1o.jpg
Though the above photo is unrelated I believe to the G20 attack however I submit that it would be prime example of someone being a prick I dare say. A police officer pushing over someone who isn’t even facing them.
Now whats the difference between that and being pushed away by riot shields with your hands in the air? Bearing in mind that the Police are trained to use them to shove people bloody hard and fast in a direction away from them..
I had watched quite a bit of the news before this all happened and the leader of “Climate Camp” had been crystal clear that he had no intention of staging any kind of riot, that he clearly wanted a peaceful protest and that if any one wanted to join in they could, but if they were looking for violence/anarchy then they were to look else where.
Hardly fair or decent treatment of people exercising their right to protest now is it?
In addition to Dan.
I wonder if he would look here too:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/04/426221.html
Being imprisoned in the street Dan? Fancy it?
Had the police tried to stand immobile, they would have been moved by sheer weight of numbers of the crowd who are urged forwards by those at the rear away from the police lines. In such a situation, there would be fallers who would be trampled on. The police are having to react to avoid being overwhelmed. It is clear that verbal reasoning has little effect. Indeed, those of the crowd at the front have no way to avoid being puched over the police. The officers need to cause the crowd to resist this forward pressure. It does look very untidy and violent. I’ve no figures for this location but if the battering had been really significant, there would have been many serious injuries from the shields and batons.
If the police are not to be used as riot control forces, they might just as well abandon the streets to the sort of peaceful demonstrators we saw at the Bank of Scotland windows. Despite the cries “this is not a riot” it had all the hallmarks, actions and threats of a riot.
If one goes to any sort of protest nowadays, there is the risk that agitators will initiate crowd action that results in anti-riot tactics. Certainly, the police will respond to violent demonstrations. If they did not, the violence would escalate as the ill-intentioned see what they can achieve.
Yes – what we saw was worrying. Northern Ireland’s 30+ years started in just the same way where the streets were taken over by hostile crowds. The average Belfast riot 70-71′ish was far more violent than what is seen here.
Re: the “peaceful” demonstrations at the bank of England as you so succinctly put it Dave, one broken window hardly constitutes anything other than a peaceful protest where the protesters were hemmed in and treated like cattle before they had a chance to to even consider acting any other way than peacefully. If anything these scuffles show great restraint on the part of the protesters in both instances. At the BoE there were significantly more bodies than police, and the police were quite obviously very badly trained/prepared. The shots of the police in a huddle, link-armed, surrounded by pushing bodies must have been quite scary for the boys in blue involved. Nonetheless there was next to no violence. One window at a hated bank got smashed, and if you look at the footage of that incident there were more journalists than “rioters” there, no doubt spurring on any acts they could in order to make the headlines. The BBC was almost salivating at the chance of recording a full blown fracas, disgusting. With the exception of that one fleeting moment the rest of the “violence” was in direct response to people being shoved around by the Police. Now I’m not saying that a Police Officer faced with a screaming shaven headed angry member of the public shouldn’t push them back as a part of their command of the situation, but there was no reason at all for the Officer to be that close. Its not like they stepped in to stop the “violence” that was visited on the RBS building, they did it to make the point that the protesters were neither welcome nor supported. A point which was neither true nor acceptably demonstrated by the Police.
As for the Incident recorded and discussed here, the weight of numbers was a direct result of the shrinking area the protesters were occupying. Before the Police started pushing the walls in for the most part everyone was sat down, or making food, or powering generators with bicycles, or dancing, or a myriad of other festivities. Not, however pushing against a wall of Police. The pushing only began when suddenly the tent dissappered under a hob-nailed boot and the sun was blocked by a riot shield.
So the question is this, would the days events have got any more out of control if the Police had not been involved in the way they were? I honestly don’t know, there is no doubt that some members of the BoE demonstrations were there for a fight, however, I honestly don’t think there were enough to tip the balance and actually “riot”. As for the Climate Camp, I whole heartedly support the concept of bringing a major city to a halt for a day in order to remind people that there is more to this world than concrete and steel, and the only damage done was some graffiti which, in all honesty, brightened up an otherwise dull and soulless financial quarter.
The simple fact that there were some people who have taken enough of an interest, and have enough of an opinion that they have taken the time to organise such a large scale and, for the most part, successful political event shows that there is some life left in this bloated country. This is a Democracy after all, one where everyone has a voice which at the very least, at the very very least should be listened too. I wasn’t alive for the Belfast riots of the 70′s however I have enough of a wide angle view of history that I can appreciate them for what they stood for and still acknowledge them as a dark and unfortunate period. If we don’t want a return then people need to start listening to each other again. The only reason people take these violent and extreme actions is because they feel they have no choice. The small percentage of society, the “agitators” you mention are there regardless, but for the most part they are not only a minority, but a disliked minority. When the masses feel they have more in common with the agitators than the leaders, that is when we see sparks ignite. The first step on that path is the Police treating everyone as an “agitator” first and a citizen second.
John – I have every regard and respect for front line police who are faced with mindless and serious violence. In such circumstances the use of reasonable and proportionate force is the only way to control a situation.
I just wonder if, sometimes, red mist causes an excess of violence on the part of those who have batons and riot shields.
I was trained thirty + years ago in the use of shields and batons for military purposes. Both the shield (and I suspect the new shields are more effective) and the batons are capable of inflicting serious damage. A shield used with a rapid double pushing action can cause shock to the recipient.
It is a difficult issue – if crowds won’t respond to reason what do the police do?
It is perfectly true that in some European countries (as the BBC reporters stated) water cannon and CS gas would be used. Neither was deployed at G20, I understand.
I have read, elsewhere, criticism from commenters identifying themselves as police officers that some officers lose perspective and over react. This, I suspect, is inevitable given human nature and I also accept that training is designed to minimise the risk of this happening.
On the opposite side of the coin – when Police are faced with extreme violence, sticks, stones, bottles, petrol – we have seen how well trained squads react using far less force than US or other European police forces use – there are, as is often the case, two sides to the story.
The Police, not unreasonably in my view, are expected to have high standards of behaviour. Do we expect too much of our police?
I cannot imagine any serving officer objecting to being accountable for his or her actions and if and when disproportionate force is used and proven – accepting that official action must follow.
I feel that some of the activity shown in the film showed disproportionate use of force. I was not there, however, and film does not always portray the whole story.
I repeat my opening statement in the post – Like most people in this country, I have no patience for those who initiate protest and use violence to people or property to achieve their ends.
The Police have been successful in rounding up those who did damage or committed acts of violence (or many of them) and rightly deserve praise for this.
The Economist had a journalist present at the protests. There are comments to his article from people who were also present (the link below is to the comments).
http://www.economist.com/ display…ntStartPosition
I quote from a comment;
“The girl next to me was hit over the head by a baton and was knocked unconscious immediately. Blood was streaming from her head and the police kicked her to get up and continued to do so until people dragged her away, again being attacked by policemen. The blood dripped from her head as she was taken away.
This was repeated throughout the day.”
Apologies – link was truncated.
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13404273&CFID=48549774&CFTOKEN=69145031&mode=comment&sort=recommend&source=ajx#commentStartPosition
Charon QC,
I hope you will forgive me for cross-posting my comment from the Magistrate’s Blog. Everyone here seems to have automatically sided with the protestors for two main reasons: a selectively edited video, and their own political views.
For comparison, I’m a twenty-something former law student who generally regards himself to be fairly liberal on law & order issues. Certainly not a hang ‘em and flog ‘em.
=======
I really don’t have a problem with anything I saw.
Looks like the police decided to clear Bishopsgate of the protestors (perhaps because it was getting close to 5pm and time for office workers to leave?). So they did so. The protestors don’t have an automatic right to stand wherever they choose.
What I saw was the police pushing the protestors back using their shields. Hardly any use of batons, maybe once or twice where individual protestors moved towards the police aggressively. The protestors weren’t being crushed as there was plenty of room behind them to move back.
“This is not a riot” is meaningless. The police have the power to move the protestors, and they did so. The fact that the demonstration was essentially peaceful is meaningless to me. The protestors seemed intent on standing where they were (which is quite apparent in the video) so using the shields to move them is surely appropriate.
====
Andy,
What are you saying-that the police didn’t do it or that they had justification?
Charon QC
“Wait, negotiate… most protesters, I suspect have homes to go to and would have been happy to go when the protest was over.”
As a veteran of the non stop picket of South Africa House, may I assure you that some protesters would like nothing more than a disruptive, obvious presence for as long as possible.
Mike G
“The pushing only began when suddenly the tent disappeared under a hob-nailed boot and the sun was blocked by a riot shield. ”
Emotive claptrap that weakens your point. Even watching the film with all it’s jump edits it is clear that the “hands up we’re peaceful” line was formed as the police lined up with the obvious (and loudly proclaimed) intention of clearing the road. Would that have anything to do with the chap with the megaphone giving out instructions, maybe it was a spontaneous outbreak of hands in the airism or perhaps, well definitely actually, it is a standard passive resistance tactic.
You’re right nightjack, there was an example of my emotive libertarian side getting the better of me and running my mouth (fingers) for a few seconds. Let me re-state slightly.
Ignoring the rights and wrongs of either party in this specific instance, there can be no doubt it is merely one in a long list of examples of the Police, nay, the government, stretching that thin line which nestles between freedom and security. That this is such a clear example with video evidence and written testimony merely strengthens the case but certainly does not make it. Random stop and search powers, the incoming laws regarding information from all overseas travelers, the concept of a single database for everything about everyone, the potential of the internet watch foundation, the idea that it is in some way criminal to wear certain types of attire and the recent torture collusion debacle to name a few other examples. That’s without even going anywhere near the catastrophe of Control Orders, the Prevention of Terrorism Act and the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act.
In response to Charon’s initial question, “Is this the type of Policing we want in our country?” the answer from me can only be a resounding no. Do I acknowledge this type of hardline policing is sometimes necessary, yes. Do I acknowledge that there are foul and vicious people in the world who can happily cause harm, and who thrive on the chaos of these sorts of events, who if left with the opportunity, would happily incite a riot. Of course, I’ve met a few. Do I want to feel safe walking the streets knowing our uniformed crime fighters are ready, trained and ahead of the game enough to protect me from these bad people who might want to hurt me, undoubtedly yes. Does this situation make me feel that warm protective fuzzy coat of security that our incorruptible and resolute guardians are manning the walls, watchful for anything which might try to harm the decent and just society they have been entrusted with protecting. No it doesn’t.
Make no mistake, however cuddly, local, personable, approachable, risible and real television and policy has made our Police force, they are the measure of our society, who must continually, and without fail, meet and surpass the highest bar for conduct, and I worry that they have forgotten that.
There I go again…. Bad fingers!
[...] photographers and hacks with notebooks, I tweeted my way through G20 and then it turned nasty. I asked whether this is the type of Policing we wanted in our country and elicited a strong response from commentors (Hat Tip to The Magistrate’s Blog for [...]
Charon I am somewhat surprised that a legal mind such as yourself could be so easily swayed by this somewhat suspect video. The police behaved very well and did a sterling job. Would you rather it had been handled like the Strasbourg protests? I don’t thinks so. Perhaps you should review the evidence gain.
Mcmrjp
Thank you for your observation. I did not take the film – I suspect that it has been edited – but it does reveal a use of force arguably disproportionate in the circumstances.
It would appear that a journalist from The Economist observed disproportionate use of force and it would appear also that the man who died may have died following the use of force by Police.
We shall have to wait and see what the authorities make of this and other footage.
I do not see any need to judge our own Police force by the activities of French or other Police. I live in Britain, not France – and I prefer the generally more moderate policing techniques used by our Police.
I raise the issue for debate because it is important. This episode, as filmed – whatver the reality/accuracy of the film – shows an ugly incident in anotherwise largely peaceful protest where Policing was organised and, it is reported, relaxed.
I hope that this film is proven to be edited in an unfair way or doctored and that excessive use of force was not used – and that the Police are judged by independent experts not to have behaved improperly – but until that happens we are entitled to consider that excessive use of force is shown on the film.
If the film is proven to be biased/doctored, edited maliciously, all reasonable people will, of course, take a different view.
There will, no doubt, be an enquiry into these events and the results published.
I thought the police dealt with this particular violent disorder quite well from this video. I notice that they haven’t included officers getting walloped with iron bars by protesters in their selection of clips.
Clever editing can prove or disprove any view point.
PC Plastic Fuzz
Can you let me have the URL to the footage of this ‘particular part’ of the G20 protest which shows police officers getting hit with iron bars? I assume you have seen it and it is, therfore, available on the net. If you provide me with the link i will provide a link to it in the main post
Thank you
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